Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/pc/text/spacedig/v15_2/v15no290.txt

Internet Message Format | 1993-07-13 | 32KB

Date: Wed,  7 Oct 92 05:00:14
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V15 #290
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Wed,  7 Oct 92       Volume 15 : Issue 290

Today's Topics:
                                Amber
                Automated mail > file cat & decoding ?
              Controversy over V-2 anniversary (7 msgs)
                       Mars Observer trajectory
            Pioneer Venus Out of Fuel, Orbit Deteroriating
                              Population
                    They Might Be Giants (2 msgs)
                           V-2 anniversary
            Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both? (2 msgs)
         Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding)
         With telepresence, who needs people in Earth orbit?

    Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
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    (THENET), or [e-mail] (Internet).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 12:14:59 GMT
From: John Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Amber
Newsgroups: sci.space

-From: [e-mail] (Joe Dellinger)
-Subject: Re: Amber (Was: Re: Population)
-Date: 5 Oct 92 05:57:51 GMT
-Organization: School of Ocean and Earth Science Technology

-In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John Roberts) writes...
-> I believe the current (and recent) record for DNA extraction is ~25 million
-> years, for a termite trapped in amber. Reconstructing the entire genetic
-> code from DNA fragments and using that code to produce a living organism
-> are additional challenges.

-    In the Sept 1992 "Natural History" magazine, Stephen J. Gould
-writes that the "current" record is for chloroplast DNA from preserved tree
-leaves in the Clarkia lake beds, 17-22 Million years old. The Clarkia
-preservation is extremely unusual: leaves falling right into an anoxic lake
-bottom, rapid burial, and an anoxic environment continuously maintained until
-present. Even so they still haven't managed to get nuclear DNA.... yet.

-    He says the "previous" record was from a 13000 year old Sloth.
-From .013 to 22 is a pretty healthy jump!

I believe the previous record was some millions of years less, but still
millions of years old, and was also nuclear DNA extracted from an insect
(loosely speaking) trapped in amber. The termite DNA announcement showed up
in the newspapers in the last month or two - and it's not unusual for monthly
magazines to have several months delay for publication (to say nothing of
the time required to write and proofread the article).

John Roberts
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 13:45:39 GMT
From: Borre Ludvigsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Automated mail > file cat & decoding ?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,alt.binaries.pictures.d,sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Borre Ludvigsen)
writes:
> Automated mail > file cat & decoding ?
>
> We need a shell script, program, gizmo that reads a mail spool file, recognizes a
> ............
> convert and sluice it to the right directory of anonymous ftp account.
>
> If anyone has any tips, scripts or code that they think might help, we'd be
> etarnally grateful.
>
>
> Kjell Are Refsvik <[e-mail]>
> &
> Barre Ludvigsen <[e-mail]>

Repsonders to our question about Automated mail > file cat & decoding,

Thank you _all_ for your help and interest. We have downloaded some of the suggested
solutions which Kjell Are is looking at now.

In spite of my ignorance about crossposting (actually laziness - last time I tried
it with my newsreader, it didn't work) for which I humbly apologize to those for
whom it may have caused havoc, irritation or anxiety - (Kjell Are did mutter
something about it under his breath as he saw what I was doing) - we are very
grateful for all the help we have received so far.

The answers below are only a resume of the suggestions received. A complete text
file of the replies may be found on our anonymous ftp server <ftp.dhhalden.no>
(158.36.33.11) in the directory /pub/mail.

- Barre Ludvigsen

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Barre Ludvigsen                                [e-mail]
Associate Professor, Architect        [e-mail]
Ostfold Regional College                    [e-mail]
Department of Computer Science          [e-mail]
Os Alle 9                                             ***********
N-1750 HALDEN, Norway                                 NeXTMail OK
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 phone[phone]/fax[phone]/home479341922/direct479185577ext219
-----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 92 20:17:31 GMT
From: David Breneman <kopachuk!dcb>
Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

Deletions fore and aft...

>                                                              In past wars
>the spoils were the wealth of a nation.  The spoils that we took in WWII were
>the most valuable of all, technology. The Ampex tape recorders and our entire
>television industry was taken from the Germans and developed by us after the
>war.

Whereas BASF and Telefunken were indeed the inventors of tape recording
(as opposed to wire recording) technology, Germany actually trailed
the US and Great Britain slightly in television technology.  Germany
never broadcast television for home reception, but into small theaters
called a Fernsehhof or something like that.  Although Hitler gave it
great lip-service, he allowed TV research to languish and it was the
BBC which had the first regularly scheduled television service in
1937, followed by NBC in 1939.  The first televised Olypmics, in
1936, were covered by two cameras which never left the Olympic stadium.
Many of the great advances in television were made by Philo Farnsworth
and Vladimir Zworykin, both working in the US.  Germany's poineering
efforts in rocketry are undisputable, however, and it's a shame that
in many people's minds the technological accomplishments can't be
divorced from the political agenda of the government which sponsored
them.  Interestingly enough, the first US satellite (Explorer?) was
launched by the rocket Hitler hoped would rain death and destruction
on New York - the Redstone, which Von Braun's team completed in the
US after the war.

--
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
[e-mail]           |   SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez-  |   /   /___  /___/
 ..!uunet!tacoma!dcb      |  "Nylok lock nuts lose their  |  /   ____/ /
CompuServe: 75760,1232    | binding strength after 1 use!"|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 03:42:38 GMT
From: Bernd Felsche <[e-mail]>
Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

In <[e-mail]>
   [e-mail] (Mary Shafer) writes:

>On 29 Sep 92 15:57:34 GMT,
> [e-mail] (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) said:

>Bill> Apparently the fact that the A-4 was a nasty weapon that killed lots
>Bill> of people overshadows the importance of the anniversary.

>Bill> In this country, the Confederate Air Force is allowed to tell us what
>Bill> a great plane the B-17 was without visible interference...

>The B-17 wasn't built by starving slave labor.  The factories weren't
>filled with representatives of the "mongrel" subhuman races that could
>be worked without food or heat or hygiene until they dropped dead or
>were hung "pour encourager les autres".

Was the A-4? (I'm referring to the experimental prototypes.)

The aniversary was to commemorate the technical achievement
of the A-4, not its military ab-use, or the system which
produced it.

In March 1945, the allies dropped 18,000 tons of bombs on
Germany. That does not diminish my opinion of the technical
merits of the hardware used.

The moral question is an entirely different one.
--
+-----+ Bernd Felsche                     _--_|\  #include <std/disclaimer.h>
| | | | MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd          /      \ [e-mail]
| | | | 328 Albany Highway,              X_.--._/         Fax: [phone]
|m|p|s| Victoria Park, Western Australia 6100  v        Phone: [phone]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 12:49:44 BST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary

> That still doesn't make it right.  Not persecuting people for crimes
> against humanity because they may be useful to you is wrong.  Period.
>


I am in agreement. However my reading of history does not place the VfR group
very much in this. As was stated, they were not in SS, and in fact there were
attempts to take them over. Von Braun and the commander there had to play some
Byzantine politics to try to stay independant. Remember that the SS existed
because the German Army was not considered "reliable" enough to do Hitler's real
dirty work.

> Furthermore, I think this attitude of yours that nobody's hands are
> clean so people can't be criticized without an understanding of their
> history is in large part responsible for the decline of modern
> morality.  You have to step up and take responsibility for your actions,
> no matter what--you can't wuss out with an unhappy childhood or a mean
> mommy or "everybody's doing it".  If it's wrong, it's wrong.
>


I don't think that is quite what Dennis said. He was defending the rocket team
in particular. My own readings of history place me firmly in agreement with him
on this. But I do agree with you in other cases: ie see my posting about the
unindicted war criminals from OUR side in WWII. The victors define morality to
be very simply


    what we did   == good or at least necessary
    what they did == evil and unjustifiable

The above is what society ACTUALLY did, and that is true moral relativism. I
don't think that anyone is implying that Nazism was anything but the most evil
and perverted government, over all, of any in recent history. But one must still
deal with individuals as individuals, apart from their cause, and judge them
only on their acts and against a well defined legal standard. Had we done that,
I am confident the same number of Nazi's would have swung on the ends of ropes
after Nuremberg. The difference is they would have been joined by a couple Brits
and Americans.

After all, can anyone say the perpetrators of Dresden were other than pure evil?
A century hence their names will be damned in the history books and they will be
equated with the worst of their Nazi peers. Please note that I do not place much
blame on the pilots who flew that terrible mission. The blame is reserved for
the officers and planners who knew what they were doing and why they were doing
it.

Von Braun, in my mind, was one of the good guys who happened to be on the wrong
side at the time.

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 16:01:34 GMT
From: Jon J Thaler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says:

>> That still doesn't make it right.  Not persecuting people for crimes
>> against humanity because they may be useful to you is wrong.  Period.

> I am in agreement. However my reading of history does not place the VfR group
> very much in this. As was stated, they were not in SS, and in fact there were
> attempts to take them over. Von Braun and the commander there had to play
> some Byzantine politics to try to stay independant. Remember that the SS
> existed because the German Army was not considered "reliable" enough to do
> Hitler's real dirty work.

I think a quote from Tom Lehrer illuminates von Braun's attitude:

     "'Now I'm learning Chinese,' says Werner von Braun."

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 15:16:59 GMT
From: Mary Shafer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

On 6 Oct 92 04:54:52 GMT, [e-mail] (John Roberts) said:

[Lots of really good comment deleted, but this is _sci_.space and I
can't stay on my high moral horse and complain about the signal to
noise ratio when I'm part of the (non-sci) noise.]

John> I don't recall the extensive V-2 display you mention seeing
John> at the NASM -is that near the missile?

It's not an extensive display.  There are just a few photos near
the base of the missile.  They've got the covers off one fin and
that's how I could see the bicycle chain.  I'm always interested
in hardware.

The museum has redone the rocketry gallery and it's really nice,
too.  I'd just spent the week at Langley Research Center, learning
about single- and two-stage-to-orbit airbreather and rocket vehicles
and I decided that the NASM was _research_.  The new gallery was
extremely informative, although I was surprised to see that Goddard
thought that the fuel system could be pressurized with oxygen.

It's incredibly depressing to see aircraft that I saw flying in the
museum!  Especially when I saw the first flight.  Visiting the NASM
and the Air Force Museum make me feel so old.

Does anyone know if the Goddard that was lauded in the aerial
photography/reconnaisance gallery is related to the rocket Goddard?

Just a bit more on the V-2 commemoration: I was reading the stack of
papers that accumulated in my absence and found the story about this
controversy.  The article stated that over 60,000 slave laborers were
involved and that at least 30,000 did not survive.  A German
person/group proposed that a memorial to these people be erected at
Peenemunde.  I inferred (but it was not explicitly stated) that were
this to be done, many German or European objections would vanish.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
[e-mail]                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 13:12:16 GMT
From: Ryan Montieth Gill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

    Don't forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki people!!  Those along with
Dresden would have to be some of the most infamous single hours in
history. The point is that these events should never have to be
repeated in history.  Are we all so stupid, as to not have learned
from our mistakes?  100,000 plus lives disapearing in a heartbeat
is too powerful to ignore.  Many people will argue that the A-bombs
should not have been used, but then 1,000,000 casualties more would
have been suffered by our side alone...We can't second guess the
past or try to change it, but we can remember it and change the
Future for the better!

Ryan M. Gill

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 16:16:55 GMT
From: "michael p.herlihy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ryan Montieth Gill) writes:
>
>from our mistakes?  100,000 plus lives disapearing in a heartbeat

Ryan,

Many more people in Japan died in the fire-bombing raids
then were killed by the Hiroshoma/Nagasaki raids. If memory
serves me right 90,000+ were killed in the first fire-bombing
raid on Tokyo.

The overall total number escapes my memory right now.

--
Da mihi castitatem et continentiam, sed noli modo.
Confessions of St. Augustine, Book VIII, Chapter 7

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:50:23 GMT
From: Martin Connors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mars Observer trajectory
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve
Collins) writes:
>
> I have some information on the Mars Observer trajectory.
> Now for the data. I snagged the latest trajectory and have the
> the following spacecraft state information:
> Epoch: 10/5/92 00:00:00 UTC
> Position: 1.46030475e8 3.16372935e7 1.30237608e7   km
> Velocity -7.02799688e0 3.00312953e1 1.22052289e1   km/sec
> relative to the sun in the J2000 coordinate frame.
> These can be expressed as classical elements about the sun, but I am
> not familiar with the nomenclature that the available software uses.
For those wishing to do so (perhaps for use with ephem) the following
SHORT listing is posted (available upon request in FORTRAN too). NOTE that
the units are AU and AU/day for the Position and Velocity so you will need
to convert the above to those units first. This routine is based on
Brouwer and Clemence's book (at home right now, title something like
"Celestial Mechanics")....
#include <stdio.h>
#include <math.h>
#define pi 3.1415926536
#define twopi 6.283185308
#define radian 57.2957795
#define invrad 1.745329252e-2

main()
{
double meananomaly, eccentricity, *trueanomaly, *eccanomaly;
double lilomega,bigomega,inclination,a;
double ax,bx,px,qx,ay,by,py,qy,az,bz,pz,qz; double x,y,z,r,xd,yd,zd,n;
double obliquity=23.445785;  /* 1950.0 */
double cosl,sinl,cosb,sinb,sini,sino,cosi,coso,cose,sine;
double r2,v2,rrdot,sinu,cosu,b,u;
double k=0.01720209895; /* Gaussian constant */
/*
printf("\n enter x,y,z and derivatives");
scanf("\n %lf %lf %lf",&x,&y,&z);
scanf("\n %lf %lf %lf",&xd,&yd,&zd);
*/
x=1.074433; y=-0.483451; z=-0.214434;
xd=0.000163; yd=0.017834; zd=0.00763;
/* derivatives are in AU/day - divide by Gaussian constant */
xd /= k; yd /= k; zd /= k;
r2=x*x+y*y+z*z; r=sqrt(r2);
v2=xd*xd+yd*yd+zd*zd;
rrdot=x*xd+y*yd+z*zd;

a=1./(2./r-v2);
eccentricity=sqrt(rrdot*rrdot/a+(r*v2-1.)*(r*v2-1.));

sinu=rrdot/(eccentricity*sqrt(a));
cosu=(r*v2-1.)/eccentricity;
u=asin(sinu);
meananomaly=u-eccentricity*sinu;
b=a*sqrt(1.-eccentricity*eccentricity);
obliquity *= invrad;
coso=cos(obliquity);   sino=sin(obliquity);
px= x*cosu/r - xd*sinu*sqrt(a);
qx=(x*sinu/r + xd*sqrt(a)*(cosu-eccentricity))*a/b;
py= y*cosu/r - yd*sinu*sqrt(a);
qy=(y*sinu/r + yd*sqrt(a)*(cosu-eccentricity))*a/b;
pz= z*cosu/r - zd*sinu*sqrt(a);
qz=(z*sinu/r + zd*sqrt(a)*(cosu-eccentricity))*a/b;
n=0.01720209895/sqrt(a*a*a); /* mean motion in rad/day */
sini=sqrt(py*py*sino*sino-2.*py*pz*sino*coso+pz*pz*coso*coso
         +qy*qy*sino*sino-2.*qy*qz*sino*coso+qz*qz*coso*coso);
inclination=asin(sini);
sinl=(-py*sino+pz*coso)/sini;
cosl=(-qy*sino+qz*coso)/sini;
lilomega=asin(sinl);
bigomega=acos(px*cosl-qx*sinl);
meananomaly *= radian;
lilomega *= radian;
bigomega *= radian;
inclination *= radian;
obliquity *= radian;
printf("\n  meananomaly, eccentricity, a");
printf(" %lf %lf %lf",meananomaly,eccentricity,a);
printf("\n  lilomega, bigomega, inclination");
printf(" %lf %lf %lf",lilomega,bigomega,inclination);
}

anomaly(meananomaly,eccentricity,trueanomaly,eccanomaly)

double meananomaly, eccentricity, *trueanomaly, *eccanomaly;
{
/* This routine finds the values of the eccentric and true      */
/* anomalies in elliptical motion,                              */
/* given the mean anomaly and the eccentricity.                 */
/* The mean anomaly, eccentric anomaly, and true anomaly are    */
/* measured in radians.                                         */

double delta, m, x, y, z;

  m = meananomaly - twopi * floor(meananomaly / twopi);
  *eccanomaly = m;
  delta = *eccanomaly - (eccentricity * sin(*eccanomaly)) - m;
  while (fabs(delta) >= 1.0e-12)
    {
      delta = delta / (1.0 - (eccentricity * cos(*eccanomaly)));
      *eccanomaly = *eccanomaly - delta;
      delta = *eccanomaly - (eccentricity * sin(*eccanomaly)) - m;
    }
  x = sqrt(( 1.0 + eccentricity) / (1.0 - eccentricity));
  y = cos(*eccanomaly/2.0);
  z = sin(*eccanomaly/2.0);
  *trueanomaly = 2.0 * atan(x*tan(*eccanomaly/2.0));
}  /*end of function anomaly*/

Hope this helps, and have fun....
Martin Connors
University of Alberta
{ accuracy of listing results not vouched for. MC and UA bear no
responsibility etc. }

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:47:46 GMT
From: David Knapp <[e-mail]>
Subject: Pioneer Venus Out of Fuel, Orbit Deteroriating
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Aaron Wigley [Wigs]) writes:
>Ron Baalke ([e-mail]) wrote:
>: The spacecraft's orbit is deteroriating, and it is expected to plunge into the
>: atmosphere of Venus within a week.
>
>What is the current operation status of Pioneer Venus?
>Would we be able to get any useful data as it enters Venus's atmosphere,
>or will its method of destruction be of no real use to us?

Performace is healthy aside from deteriorated batteries and solar panels. This
is a normal affect due to old age in a demanding environment.  Our group has
been receiving UV imaging and spectral data on a regular basis, since
launch.

It seems to be that what will stop useful data transimission is atmospheric
drag steering the PV antenna away from Earth lock. There is no predicting
when that will happen exactly.  If for some bizarre reason the spacecraft
is not steered before drag starts signifcant heating, thermal overload will
be the limiting factor.

Contrary to some beliefs, PVO is not simply on a crash course into the
center of the planet. It is in a highly elliptical orbit with a periapsis
that is slowly decaying.  It has a 24 hour orbit period and literally every
day, at closest approach, the s/c dips a little deeper into the atmosphere
and suffers more drag. The next orbit, then, has an even *lower* periapsis.
Around Wednesday, this effect will become so pronounced that it won't be
able to continue through the orbit and will have its orbit slowed so much that
that periapsis encounter will be its last.

Our instrument will be watching UV emission from the plasma which forms around
the s/c as it flies through the tenuous upper atmosphere.  We expect to see
atomic oxygen, CO and perhaps even carbon, although who knows? It's
never been done before.





--
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Perpetual Student                                   [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 11:53:47 GMT
From: John Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Population
Newsgroups: sci.space

-From: [e-mail] (Edward V. Wright)
-Subject: Re: Population
-Date: 21 Sep 92 15:21:20 GMT
-Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA

-In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Knapp) writes:
->>  Not the only person. A common theme that runs through all environmental
->>debate is that every other species is more important than Man.
->Perhaps you've been reading literature the rest of us haven't. I've never
->seen such a thing.

-Oh?  You haven't even read about the spotted owl?  The environmentalist
-position there is that the species must be saved regardless of how many
-jobs are lost.  Now, there are certainly cases where a specific type of
-environmental protection may be worth some job loss, and this may be one
-of them, but that is not the environmentalist position.  Whenever
-someone starts talking about cost/benefit analyses, the environmentalists
-do not contest the costs and benefits involved -- they just yell bloody
-murder.

I've never thought the coverage of this controversy in the popular news
media provided enough details for anyone to form a reasonable opinion.
One item that was peripherally mentioned was that the proposed logging
of the area would be at much faster than replacement rate, so that after
a certain number of years (perhaps 10-20 - I don't know for sure), those
jobs would be gone anyway. Also, I haven't seen too much mention of the
events leading to the current situation. Was the forest land in question
always protected, or is the protection a recent change in policy? If the
former, then I assume the people who want the jobs cutting the trees didn't
all graduate from lumberjack college this year - they must have been
cutting somewhere else before this. If that is the case, then why did they
keep the industry going full blast until this was the only land left
available to them (if that's also the case)? Were they confident that they
would be able to get the protection removed? If, on the other hand, the
protection was abruptly added, I can see how they might feel they have a
legitimate complaint.

Does anybody have more information on the events leading to the current
situation? It seems to me that the fact that the timber industry wants to
cut the trees in the area at much more than the replacement rate weakens
their argument - they basically want to destroy a renewable resource in
order to enjoy a few more years of prosperity. I'm also not entirely clear
on why these particular trees have to be cut - are they all the old-growth
timber that's left?

John Roberts
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 92 22:02:43 GMT
From: Morris Jones <[e-mail]>
Subject: They Might Be Giants
Newsgroups: sci.space

I recently saw a copy of the latest CD from "They Might Be Giants". It's
called "Apollo 18", and has some interesting cover art. The booklet
features photos from NASA projects from the sixties, and the back of the
case claims that TMBG are "musical ambassadors for International Space
Year." The ISY logo is also featured.
             Is this an officially endorsed product? How long have these
guys been interested in space?


Morris Jones. University of New South Wales. Happy International Space Year!

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 03:57:33 GMT
From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <[e-mail]>
Subject: They Might Be Giants
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Morris Jones) writes:
> I recently saw a copy of the latest CD from "They Might Be Giants". It's
> called "Apollo 18", and has some interesting cover art. The booklet
> features photos from NASA projects from the sixties, and the back of the
> case claims that TMBG are "musical ambassadors for International Space
> Year." The ISY logo is also featured.
>              Is this an officially endorsed product? How long have these
> guys been interested in space?

I have it from reliable sources that just about anybody who's
breathing can get just about anything stamped as an "International
Space Year" project.

I seriously considered getting the sci.space FAQs branded as an ISY
effort before deciding that this would take more chutzpah than I cared
to display (if not more than I can actually muster).

Your message has given me second thoughts.

Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey              | The restaurant's architect
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory  | said every effort had been
Bitnet:           [e-mail]  | made to build McDonald's
Internet:       [e-mail]  | 15th outlet in Italy
SPAN/Hepnet:           43011::HIGGINS  | in harmony with Pompeii.
                                       | --Reuters story in *Chicago
                                       |  Sun-Times*, 18 June 92

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:19:38 GMT
From: Steve South <[e-mail]>
Subject: V-2 anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

In sci.space  [e-mail] (Frank Dahncke) writes:

>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bruce Watson) writes:

>>Trivia question: Which city was targeted and hit by the most number
>>of V-2s?

>Amsterdam, Holland.

Pardon me for asking, but wasn't Amsterdam occupied by the Germans at the
time? Was the V2 the secret Ost-Friesian weapon? :-)

Steve.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:08:30 GMT
From: Hartmut Frommert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both?
Newsgroups: sci.space

Mike M. Skala <[e-mail]> writes:

>>he wanted his Vengance-2 weapon, he had better commute the sentence
                ^^^^^^^^^^
I'm somewhat confused: I remember that my father told me (and I probably
read) that A-4 and V-2 are acronyms for

A-4: Aggregat 4
V-2: Vergeltungs-Waffe 2 [Revenge weapon]

A-4 was the original name by the Peenemuende team; A-1..A-3 were preceeding
experimental rockets. It was later adopted for the rockets brought to the US.
Ther existed also plans for a 2-stage A-5 in Peenemuende.

V-2 was the military name for the mass produced weapon. V-1 was another
air weapon (I think a so-called "flight bomb", i.e. unmanned aircraft)
also used to attack the UK. The Peenemuende team had nothing to do with the
V-1 to my knowledge.
--
 Hartmut Frommert                 <[e-mail]>
 Dept of Physics, Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60, D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany
                                           -- Eat whale killers, not whales --

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 13:32:55 GMT
From: Daryl Owens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both?
Newsgroups: sci.space

                         Bravo!!!!


If it were not for Von Braun and his team coming to Hunstville and
doing their thing, I would not be gamefully employed during tough
economic times (and I'm not dependent on NASA or the government).

 Daryl Owens
Huntsville, AL

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 12:56:44 BST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding)

> How?  If you lowered platinum costs by a factor of 10, how would you
> benefit "American Industries Inc." more than "Japan Industries Inc."
> After all, Japan Industries Inc. could buy your cheap platinum on the
> spot market just as easily as American Industries Inc.
>


Well, so what? It benefits Terran industry and improves Terran living
standards. Stop being so colloquial. This is a planet. We all live on it. A
lot of us (here) wish to go elsewhere. Nationalism is for children.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 15:25:19 GMT
From: Andy Cohen <[e-mail]>
Subject: With telepresence, who needs people in Earth orbit?
Newsgroups: sci.space

I'm not sure...but it seems that Allan doesnt support the notion of
telerobotic exploration....consider this...
If the location can be scanned with enough detail,..then the data
transmitted back to Earth.... a vitual simulation can be constructed
Earthside.  Use of telerobotic interfaces using a form of batch commanding
can be feasible...  Earthside builds the batched commands using the virual
simulation then transmits...  The scan is performed again after the
completion of the commands as feedback again to the virtual simulation
Earthside....
The technical challenges include the scanning device, the throughput for
the scanned data back to Earth and the simulation Earthside....all are
easily solved...

Andy

This is my opinion....not MDSSC's!

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End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 290
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